Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics.airliners
From: rdd@netcom.com (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: Exhaust fumes in aircraft cabin?
Date: 08 May 94 23:50:40

In article <airliners.1994.1179@ohare.Chicago.COM> Tony Heatwole
<heatwole@clark.net> writes:

>Earlier this week while waiting to take off at DFW (with 20 planes
>in front of us) I noticed a strong smell of exhaust fumes in the
>cabin. I've noticed this from time to time before, but the long
>wait made me think about it:
>
>    1. Where do the fumes come from?  The engines on my plane or
>       the planes in front of us? If the cabin air is being re-
>       circulated from bleed air from the engines, we shouldn't
>       be getting any of our own exhaust.

Right; they were coming from the planes in front of you.


>    2. While they were only slightly unpleasant, how bad are the
>       fumes in a case like this. In particular, how much carbon
>       monoxide is there likely to be in it?

I'd be less concerned about the carbon monoxide levels than the carcinogens
being introduced into the cabin: kerosene's highly toxic.  Probably not a
problem for the average tourist, but how about the flight/cabin crew,
frequent flyer, etc?


And a random tidbit of data: WHEN an airplane's own exhaust can enter the
cabin.  On the 727, it's customary to shut down the #3 engine before
starting the APU after landing.  Reason: the APU exhaust is located in the
right wing root, expels a great deal of smoke when started, and said smoke
gets ingested by the #3 engine.  This sudden introduction of smoke into the
cabin is reported to alarm passengers, for some reason. :-)





--
Robert Dorsett
rdd@netcom.com

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics.airliners
From: tristar500@aol.com (TriStar500)
Subject: Re: Exhaust fumes in aircraft cabin?
Date: 12 May 94 13:19:37

In article <airliners.1994.1187@ohare.Chicago.COM>, rdd@netcom.com (Robert
Dorsett) writes:

>Right; they were coming from the planes in front of you.

The fumes could also be from two other sources.

1. A failure of an engine bearing-seal allowing oil to enter the compressor
section of the engine.

2. An overheat of one of the air conditioning packs. Not likely on an MD-80,
but pretty common on a 727. This is generally accompanied by oily smoke.

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics.airliners
From: rdd@netcom.com (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: Exhaust fumes in aircraft cabin?
Date: 16 May 94 01:53:30

In article <airliners.1994.1230@ohare.Chicago.COM>
davelett@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Richard Sun) writes:

>In article <airliners.1994.1222@ohare.Chicago.COM>
>Joseph_Hall@sat.mot.com (Joseph Hall) writes:
>
>>Deicing mixture also has a "nice" odor, kind of like kerosine mixed
>>with perfume.  I forget what the circumstances with the original poster
>>were, but sometimes sitting on the ground or the runway you can get
>>a nice cabin full of fumes if the air intakes were left on during
>>deicing.
>
>I thought airlines turned off engines during deicing as a general rule.

When it actually FROZE in Austin earlier this year, I happened to be at the
airport seeing a Continental 727 flight engineer off.  Most of the airplanes
were grounded, with 2-3 inches of ice on the wings.  As we were waiting,
an American Airlines 727 parked next to the gate began to start up, then shut
down.  The captain came out, climbed on top of the catering truck, was
elevated to approximately the top of the airplane, climbed on top of the
airplane, and stuck his upper body in the #2 engine.  60 seconds later, the
de-icing cranes poured glycol into there for about a minute.  Three minutes
after that, they started the #2 engine.  The spray out the exhaust was *very*
impressive. :-)

I would imagine the cabin would have been aromatic after that. :-)




--
Robert Dorsett
rdd@netcom.com

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics.airliners
From: tristar500@aol.com (TriStar500)
Subject: Re: Exhaust fumes in aircraft cabin?
Date: 02 Jun 94 00:36:16

In article <airliners.1994.1253@ohare.Chicago.COM>, pete@Rational.COM
(Pete Coe) writes:

>Was this a malfunction, or do CFM-56's have a
>habit of doing this kind of thing?

It's not that uncommon in any high-bypass engine. It's not really
smoke but unburned fuel. Sometimes you even get these really cool
three-foot long flames! Very impressive at night.

This fog is really apparent in cold weather. The older RB-211s are
especially good at 'killing mosquitos' as it tries to start on a cold
day.

As an aside, the RB-211 is a very slow starting engine.