From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Psychiatry Doping Kids
Date: 20 Jun 1999 08:00:09 GMT

In <7k84jm$peg$1@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net> kurtullman@sprintmail.com
(Kurt Ullman) writes:
>
>In article <3767551A.88481E1@cs.uoregon.edu>, Bret Wood
><bretwood@cs.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>
>>They are depressed.  If it was claimed that Prozac works instantly,
>>then this would be more troublesome.  But, since it takes _at least_
>>two weeks to have any effect, and often longer since you might need
>>to adjust the dosage, it is reasonable that some people will die
>>before it helps them.  It is unfortunate, but it is reasonable.
>
>        Even if it did work instantly, this would not be troublesome (working
>from the assumption that there was still a curve of response). Some of
>the most dangerous times for a depressed person are when the meds begin
>to work and they have the energy to finally try and kill themselves.


Commment:

    Sure enough. I've seen a few suicides of people who'd been
depressed for years, and didn't finally manage to do it until on either
Ritalin or Dexamphetamine "augmentation" of tricyclics or SSRIs.  Hard
to judge from a few cases, but knowing how amphetamines influence
aggression, I wonder at the wisdom of this kind of thing.  I think it's
best save for the time when the depression is cleared, but the person
simply hasn't got the energy or ambition to get on with their lives
(which is a lot of work, and for someone who's been depressed a while,
even more work, since there's a backlog).  Using these drugs early
needs extraordinary perceptiveness to know that the person you're
treating is simply not much of a suicide risk no matter how depressed
they get.  And such people do indeed exist.  They haven't a violent or
destructive or impulsive bone in their bodies.

  I wonder if it might not be better to keep most people zonked on
alprazolam (which has some antidepressant properties) until the SSRIs
kick in (as we do with anxious depressives almost by rote).  Enough
Xanax, and you are no more seriously going to go about killing yourself
than after smoking 10 joints.  Killing youself takes as much ambition
and planning as most things you can't possible do on a big dose of
Xanax, let alone on Xanax and depressed, too.  Sure, you might
contemplate it very seriously, and intend to get around to it any day.
First, however, is the problem of finding that second sock.  And if you
can't get to killing yourself until tomorrow, not to worry.  It's okay.
You feel horrible and sad, but your former fear that it's going to last
forever just seems to be wrapped in fuzz.  Now where the hell IS that
sock?

From: Steve Harris <sbharris@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: alt.true-crime,sci.med
Subject: Re: Suicide, knives, veins
Date: 1 Aug 2005 21:36:55 -0700
Message-ID: <1122957415.175662.186600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Carey Gregory wrote:
> Nah, Alan is right.  I've seen it "done right" and still fail countless
> times.  There are very few certain means of suicide, and neither pills nor
> bleeding are among them.  Both methods fail far more than they succeed.
>
> But the topic here is suicide by bleeding, and for that method the carotid
> artery is clearly the best choice.

COMMENT:

Nor "clearly" when he himself might his quietus make with a bare
bodkin... If you must bleed, I vote with Hamlet for the thin round shiv
between the ribs. The heart is easier to hit than a carotid, probably
less painful since you don't muck around, and faster. And much less
messy.

Hah, you say, how can anybody possibly miss a carotid?! Well, when it's
YOUR neck, you can miss. On the other hand, if you hit it and change
your mind, it's easier to survive. Direct pressure and 911 and you
might just possibly make it. With the heart, it's much harder. It
happens, but not often.

SBH