From: "Barry L. Ornitz" <ornitzz@dpnet.net>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: WW1 Era Explosive Ordinance Disposal: Need Advice
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:09:39 -0400

An unnamed poster wrote:

>>What's the big deal about picric acid?

>If a crystal falls back in the acid, the whole thing can/will go, not
>just the one crystal

I have never seen such a chemistry-ignorant newsgroup.

Picric acid is normally kept wet to lower its potential for shock
sensitivity.  The dry crystals are still not terribly dangerous.  The worry
is that in old bottles with ground glass stoppers, twisting the stopper to
remove it can crush and squeeze the dry crystals, possibly detonating them.
The same is also true of threaded caps where the crystals can get on the
threads.

Just like its brother compound, TNT, picric acid was molten and poured into
shell and bombs where it solidified. [Picric acid is trinitrophenol, TNT is
trinitrotoluene.]

The big worry about picric acid in old ordnance is that in contact with
copper and brass, cupric picrate can be formed.  This is extremely shock
and friction sensitive.  Thus picric acid was not generally used after WWI
because of this discovery.  Some ammonium picrate was used in WWII, and
although safer, it too can form highly sensitive metal picrates.

        Dr. Barry L. Ornitz     ornitz-at-dpnet.net

From: "Barry L. Ornitz" <ornitzz@dpnet.net>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: WW1 Era Explosive Ordinance Disposal: Need Advice
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:43:09 -0400

Robert Bastow wrote in message <37F2EE12.E37100AE@home.com>...
>Hey!
>Up yours Pal!
>We are not supposed to be chemists on this group, but at least we know
>enough not to f*ck with explosives..Picric Acid or any other!!
>What is YOUR particular claim to fame?
>teenut
>
>> I have never seen such a chemistry-ignorant newsgroup.
>>
>>         Dr. Barry L. Ornitz     ornitz-at-dpnet.net

PhD in chemical engineering/electrical engineering.  Close to 30 years in
R&D for the chemical industry, including work for Holston Army Ammunition
Plant which manufactures RDX and HMX high explosives, and C4 military
explosive (RDX/TNT blend with plasticizer).

Ignorance can be corrected with education.  Stupidity, like passing on
incorrect information as if it were the truth, like you did, requires a
much greater effort to correct.

Calling in a military demolition disposal unit is the correct advice.  Old
explosives can degrade in numerous ways, many of which make them far more
sensitive to shock.  A military disposal unit is trained in this and how to
handle these old devices as safely as possible.  Calling the local bomb
squad is the second best option.

        Dr. Barry L. Ornitz     ornitz-at-dpnet.net