From: C.C.Jordan@Worldnet.att.net (C.C. Jordan)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: Lindbergh in a Mustang Over Tokyo
Date: 26 Nov 1998 00:52:49 GMT

On 25 Nov 1998 09:22:45 -0800, Mary Shafer <shafer@reseng2.dfrc.nasa.gov> wrote:

>natrainer@aol.com (NATrainer) writes:
>
>> He flew combat in P-38s during WW II as a civilian.
>
>Many people who know much more about Lindbergh than I ever will say
>that this was in large part to make reparation for his isolationist,
>non-anti-Nazi position during the '30s.  He was, I understand, only
>allowed to participate after much pressure from the powers that be
>(who no doubt worried about how it would look to reject an aviation
>hero when we were so desperate for pilots).  However, I thought he was
>in the military--I've read mention of him, with a rank attached
>(Colonel Lindbergh sticks in my mind).  He may have waived the regular
>pay, but I have the distinct impression that he was, indeed, in the
>military.  He was too young to have flown in WW I, having been born in
>1902, so he couldn't have gotten it there.

Lindbergh resigned his reserve commission in April 1941.
Some speculate it was more out of embarassment than any other
single reason.

Unable to get the Roosevelt administration to give him a position within
the AAF, Lindbergh went to work for the Ford Motor company and was
waist deep in solving the B-24 production problems at Ford's Willow Run
(known also as the Willit Run) plant. He was also hired on by United
Aircraft as a consultant. In this capacity, he went to the Pacific in 1944
(invited by the Navy) to evaluate the problems encountered by the USMC
with the F4U Corsair. Lindbergh stopped by the headquarters of the 5th
AF command and wangled permission to observe the performance of the
P-38 in combat.

He never was sent there to train pilots in engine/fuel management
techniques. That is myth. Old myths die hard.

He was checked out in the P-38J by Col. Robert Morrissey (of 49th
FG fame). Lindberg was very impressed by the big fighter. Upon landing,
he managed to blow a tire which provided a good test of his skills.

During his "observation" period, Lindbergh managed to accumulate
over 180 hours of combat time flying wing to such pilots as Mcguire
and MacDonald (#2 and #3 in the SWPA/PTO). Lindbergh was unoffically
credited with one Japanese fighter shot down, witnessed by MacDonald.
It should be noted that on several occations, Japanese had to be shot off
of Lindbergh's tail because, in (I believe) MacDonald's words, "Slim
would wade right in and forget that the Japs were trying to kill him too."

The entire story of Lindbergh teaching fuel management started when
it was noticed that he would return from a mission with up to 30% of his
fuel remaining when the rest of the Group/Squadron were coming home
on fumes.

Upon investigation, it was found that Lindbergh was flying at vastly different
power settings than were found in the P-38's manual. Having mastered the
techniques of fuel conservation, Lindbergh was flying at considerably higher
manifold pressures and lower rpm, adjusting the propeller pitch for maximum
efficiency. Lindbergh offered to lecture the Group's pilots on this method.
The P-38 manual called for cruise settings of 2,200 - 2,400 rpm in auto-rich.
Lindbergh lectured on using 1,600 rpm in auto-lean. This reduced fuel
consumption to about 70 gallons an hour. Further reduction of rpm to 1,400
(165 mph IAS) could reduce it as low as 59 gallons per hour (usually closer
to 63 gph). Based upon a maximum of 1,050 gallons of capacity, this gave a
theoretical range of 2,964 miles. Of course, this requires an impossible 17
hours in the cockpit. When you factor in take off and climb out, the practical
maximum is more in the area of 2,500 miles. Practical as long as one ignores
that a man must sit in that cockpit over 15 hours !

Finally, on August 16, 1944, Gen. Kenney grounded Lindbergh. He spent a
few weeks teaching some P-47 squadrons his cruise control techniques
before being sent home in September.

That's the real Lindbergh story in a nutshell. The myth is dead, long live
the truth.

Regards to all,
C.C. Jordan

Now online - The P-38: Was its size and shape a disadvantage?
http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/9485/index.html
The "Planes and Pilots of WWII" website.
An online WWII aviation history magazine.
A member of the WWII Web-ring.
Honor and remember the WWII vets.

"In reality, there exists only fact and fiction. Opinions result from
a lack of the former and a reliance on the latter."

From: C.C.Jordan@Worldnet.att.net (C.C. Jordan)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: Lindbergh in a Mustang Over Tokyo
Date: 30 Nov 1998 04:07:16 GMT

On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 02:45:35 GMT, wb6wqa@juno.com wrote:


>Was this witnessing by MacDonald of the Japanese fighter downed by
>Lindbergh part of MacDonald's memoirs?

I couldn't say as I have not read MacDonald's memiors.

>The reason I ask is, that on this
>date in question, 28 July 1944, Lindbergh's wingman was a Lieutenant by
>the name of Miller, who witnessed the Japanese fighter kill and saw the
>Japanese fighter's tracers as he was shooting at Lindbergh.  Miller was
>with Lindbergh and never left his wing during the spashdown of the Jap
>fighter.

You are absolutely correct. It was Miller, not MacDonald who observed and
confirmed Lindbergh's victory. I'm looking at the text of the engagement as
I type this. Thank you for pointing out the mistake.

I understand that Lindbergh's kill was largely defensive in nature. Lindbergh
apparently had all to do to avoid a head-on collision.

Could MacDonald have seen the shootdown? Perhaps. Nonetheless,
it was indeed Miller that confirmed the kill.

Nice research. I should have done it instead of you. :-)

All the best,

C.C. Jordan

Now online - The P-38: Was its size and shape a disadvantage?
http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/9485/index.html
The "Planes and Pilots of WWII" website.
An online WWII aviation history magazine.
A member of the WWII Web-ring.
Honor and remember the WWII vets.

"In reality, there exists only fact and fiction. Opinions result from
a lack of the former and a reliance on the latter."